Limitless EJS: Influencer Agency Shares Advice On Brand Collaboration
In this episode of "The Build Up," host Dan speaks with Emma Stefanotti from Limitless EJS about marketing in the construction industry, focusing on influencers and content creators. Emma shares her background and insights on establishing fair rates, building genuine relationships, and the challenges faced by content creators. The discussion highlights the importance of engagement rates and the role of intermediaries in successful collaborations, offering valuable advice for navigating construction marketing.
Follow Emma: https://www.instagram.com/limitlessejs
This podcast is produced by dissident creative agency, the original disrupters of construction marketing. This podcast is born out of our passion to create conversations that push boundaries as hard as our content!
If breaking rules and standing out is your thing, we want to hear from you...
Transcript
Hello and welcome to The Buildup. This is the podcast for marketing
Speaker:in the construction industry. I'm
Speaker:Dan, the creative director at Dissident. We've been working with construction brands for
Speaker:a number of years. It's an exciting and rapidly evolving industry, and
Speaker:that's why we created a podcast dedicated to the weird and wonderful world
Speaker:of construction marketing. I'll be speaking to leading brands, other agencies,
Speaker:creatives, influencers, and startups. This is the
Speaker:resource I wish we had when we first started out in the industry. Thank
Speaker:you for being here and welcome to The Buildup. Well,
Speaker:welcome to another episode of the build up. I'm Dan. I'm
Speaker:the creative director of Dissident and I am joined today by Emma
Speaker:Stefanotti, right? Yeah. Yeah, from Limitless EJS.
Speaker:And we're really excited about this one because we're talking about, it's kind of
Speaker:like, Marketing as a whole, but with a kind of big
Speaker:focus on influencers, content creators and stuff like that. So I think this is
Speaker:probably an episode for content creators or
Speaker:Thank you for inviting me. Where have you come from today? From up
Speaker:north. So I come from Bolton, but home is Cornwall. So a bit
Speaker:So you kind of found us in the middle. Yeah, nice sort of centre point.
Speaker:Nice easy trip. I really appreciate that. This is this is the
Speaker:final episode that I'm happy to record before
Speaker:we go live on with the actual podcast. So this is like, I
Speaker:was like, I needed to wait for this one before I start going crazy and
Speaker:everything. So I'm really, really excited about today because this embarks
Speaker:the start of all the hard work that Keelan's got to do to actually get
Speaker:all these episodes edited. He's got to do logos, he's got to do all the shit that
Speaker:he's got to do for our clients. But for me, shout out to Keelan. Yeah,
Speaker:big shout out to Keelan. Can we start by
Speaker:you just explaining kind of who you are and what you do and whatever
Speaker:whole story, but no. So in a nutshell, I've grown up in
Speaker:sort of within the industry. Dad was a mechanic when I was a kid, so I've grown up
Speaker:sort of hands on tools in the garage. He now does property refurbishment,
Speaker:electrics, plumbing, all sorts. So again, the house I live in in Cornwall actually
Speaker:helped build when I was about eight. So everyone's like, oh, you
Speaker:do sort of like the marketing side. How would you have any idea of what
Speaker:being on the tools is actually like. I'm like actually quite a lot grown
Speaker:up in the industry, grown up with it, used to deal with the vehicle
Speaker:side of things, so sadly as a bit of a petrol head
Speaker:can tell you what it is without looking at it or being in the dark with its lights
Speaker:Yeah we were talking off-air that you could, you
Speaker:would know the, like the maker model of
Speaker:Probably. There was a bit of a banter in a group chat before
Speaker:one of the guys was traveling back in a car, and literally all
Speaker:he had was a picture of the dashboard. I think he was in an Uber or something. I said,
Speaker:oh, nice. I think it was like an insignia. He was like, how
Speaker:the hell do you know it's that? I'm like, because they sent a console. He's
Speaker:like, OK, we're going to play a game. Next vehicle I'm in, I'm sending you a picture, and
Speaker:And he sent it. And no one else in the group chat had any
Speaker:idea what was going on. And everyone was like, what's going on here? And I'm just like, oh,
Speaker:it's this. it's like okay 10 points and everyone literally about 30 other people
Speaker:I think that would be a cool thing to do just I'm
Speaker:not saying blow up Emma's socials and DMs
Speaker:but just send her a picture of the inside of your van and see if she
Speaker:Just like a side profile pic or the back with the doors open with
Speaker:I mean, the good thing about that, I guess, is, I mean, it's
Speaker:gotta be 80-75% of vans have
Speaker:To be fair, I used to work for that side of things, and 40% of
Speaker:the sales was transit customs. Everything else was then made up by
Speaker:every other van. Next popular was obviously the Transporter, because
Speaker:everyone loves one, and they'll convert it. but there's a lot out
Speaker:there that are like the same internal
Speaker:shell. They'll just have all made by the same factory. It might just be a Peugeot
Speaker:or a Toyota, but it's the same van underneath. So it
Speaker:would just be the name might change, but the van is essentially the
Speaker:That's the tough thing, isn't it? Because I've got a Vivaro long wheelbase crew
Speaker:cab. You don't see a lot of those knocking about.
Speaker:But essentially the Vivaro is the same as
Speaker:So the Peugeot Expert, the Toyota Proace. there's
Speaker:Is it just the cheapest? If you're going for the same thing it'll
Speaker:just be either, oh I don't like the name of that van, it'll
Speaker:I guess it's one of those things that if you want to be taken seriously you
Speaker:Yeah, that's all the top three that are like more respected in
Speaker:We've gone off topic there a little bit. Um, so we
Speaker:talked about fans, but your so your background in
Speaker:the industry. Dad was on the tools.
Speaker:Yeah, You were around it and things like that. Talk
Speaker:about your career up until this point.
Speaker:How did you get into marketing and construction and stuff like that?
Speaker:I used to do sales, social media side. So I always had
Speaker:a foot in the door with that side. Loved the connecting with people, building the
Speaker:relationships. And a couple of guys you work with have actually been previous customers
Speaker:with PeoplePlace. I've worked. So I've always had good connections
Speaker:within the industry. I switched jobs and thought, it's
Speaker:not really what I want to be doing. I want to sort of do more creative, more
Speaker:things that I enjoy, but it's also different on the daily. So I
Speaker:took a punt not even a year ago to start the business and
Speaker:thought, you know what, let's do what I enjoy doing, reach out to
Speaker:all those guys that I know in the industry and say, look, I'm going solo.
Speaker:This is what I'm going to be doing. If you need anything or you think anyone would
Speaker:And then in terms of like actually like
Speaker:Yeah, so I've split it down into sort of two sections. So I've got
Speaker:like the marketing support where a lot of the focus is on like editorials, PR
Speaker:pieces, writing up about like after events or with promos coming
Speaker:up or new product launches. A lot of it will be
Speaker:with media packs as well. So if a content creator is trying
Speaker:to link up with a brand and they've asked for their media pack, which
Speaker:is essentially like a digital CV portfolio
Speaker:And rates, their services, what they want to offer. So it could be a
Speaker:reel, a post, a content day of filming. It could
Speaker:be attending events. And then just obviously what their price is. So
Speaker:when it goes to the brand, they know what to expect. So they're
Speaker:not going to ask them for something that they're not offering. But
Speaker:also they know where they stand on price. They can try and put it in a budget. If
Speaker:there's a certain budget for a project, they can tee
Speaker:it up for that, hopefully. And then occasionally graphics
Speaker:for guys that I've got on board, maybe do a bit of content with them. And
Speaker:then I've got the influencer hub. Best way to describe it, I know
Speaker:not everyone likes football, is like the football agency vibe, but
Speaker:for the trade. So helping with influencers who
Speaker:have got brands reaching out to them and they don't really know, like you
Speaker:say, what pricing to do or how to do it, or if they're asking for a media pack and
Speaker:they need that. But also they don't want to have to faff around with
Speaker:phone calls and emails all day. They want to just crack on. I
Speaker:can then be that agent in the middle to take
Speaker:care of it and make sure the brand gets what they need. But
Speaker:the influence is also getting what they want from it and not getting screwed
Speaker:over in the process and being undercut on either price or
Speaker:value of product. Making sure everyone wins,
Speaker:I think that's a really good point, actually, because there is
Speaker:a There doesn't seem
Speaker:to be any consistency on rates and things like that in the end, or not as
Speaker:much consistency, certainly in construction industry, where, you
Speaker:know, some one person's doing this, and it's super cheap, and
Speaker:they're giving a lot of value. You're like, Oh, my God, how are we getting away with this?
Speaker:And you got other content creators who are perhaps charging
Speaker:more than the their worth, to some
Speaker:extent, obviously charge what you want. But like in terms
Speaker:of like the, there's no sort of average, like
Speaker:a mean average. And you ideally as an
Speaker:industry, you want to get to that point, because as soon as you've got people, and
Speaker:you see this in the creative industry as well, where as soon as you've got people that basically
Speaker:doing it for practically for free, they've already got a job, and
Speaker:they're you know, just like our bit of pocket money here and there, but actually providing
Speaker:loads and loads of content and value that devalues the
Speaker:stuff that the guys have got to need to
Speaker:charge more for because they're more reliant on that. So
Speaker:that needs to get it needs to get to a point ideally where we've got
Speaker:a sort of, you know, almost like a agreed upon average
Speaker:Yeah, within the industry, because like, I know a lot of people are happy with
Speaker:just getting sent product. It's like, okay, I can understand that
Speaker:I can respect that. But at the same time, how much time have you now spent that
Speaker:you would have normally to now film it? Or
Speaker:like with the outtakes? Yeah. I know there's a couple of guys out there
Speaker:that actually like to post the outtakes. You can see how many attempts it's taken for
Speaker:them to actually get to the point where what you've seen polished a week ago
Speaker:has taken them on time and effort. And
Speaker:then it can be, okay, you might have taken three hours to
Speaker:film it. You're now going to spend another five hours editing
Speaker:it, cutting it down from an hour's worth to be a short
Speaker:for Instagram or a short for YouTube or a full length YouTube, adding
Speaker:the captions and the extra images. It's like, okay, what's that time
Speaker:worth? Because it's like, okay, you've got the product for free. Depends
Speaker:on the value of the product. Where have you gained or
Speaker:lost value in what you're producing? Because like some people might get a
Speaker:tool, for example, and it could be worth five, six, 700 pounds. It's
Speaker:like, okay, take the value of the product. do as much
Speaker:content as you can for that value and say to McKay, you've
Speaker:seen what value I've brought to the table. Let's
Speaker:now talk maybe numbers or compensation because I've now provided value
Speaker:that you can see the engagement against the value of that
Speaker:product. Now it's time for me to actually start
Speaker:to see the rewards of it as well as having the tool because, oh
Speaker:yeah, create something for me. Yeah, but I don't have the item
Speaker:to do it. So you've got to give them the product anyway. So it's like, well,
Speaker:if you want them to do it, you've either got to give them the product. if
Speaker:they haven't already got it. So it's like, well, where do you sit? Like
Speaker:you say, it's that if you're doing it for free, there are a lot of people out
Speaker:there get a bit sour for people doing it for free. Because like
Speaker:you say, it feels like it's devaluing their value of
Speaker:Exactly. Because they can go, they'll go to a brand and go, well, here's my
Speaker:terms. I'm really looking forward to working with you. I'm excited
Speaker:for this. Here's my rates. And they go, well, this guy down the
Speaker:road who's got a similar amount of followers as you is
Speaker:doing it for way cheaper. and then the brand and
Speaker:It's challenging for me as well because they go oh yeah but what's their engagement rate?
Speaker:Well we've got someone who will do it for the same price and they've got more followers it's like are
Speaker:they selling themselves too short? Yeah because this is sort of almost like a bare minimum
Speaker:again time effort because if you take if you took your day rate if
Speaker:you work on day rate or hourly rate work out what you would do in a day and
Speaker:then work out how many hours you're spending on the content that's
Speaker:roughly where you want to be charging because You can't get time
Speaker:back once it's lost. Money comes and
Speaker:It just goes. I guess also from that respect as well, you've got
Speaker:to figure out the value of the product you're delivering to
Speaker:the brand. Exactly. Because your time fitting a
Speaker:bathroom perhaps obviously provides a lot
Speaker:of stuff for the customer. They're happy. They've
Speaker:got a great new bathroom, whatever. That's providing some level of value. But
Speaker:then when you set your rates to that, and
Speaker:then you're providing a reel that generates hundreds of thousands of
Speaker:pounds of sales, you've got to figure out, oh, maybe I should charge more
Speaker:That's the catch-22, isn't it? You say, oh, average post
Speaker:cost in the industry is between 300 and 500 pounds. But
Speaker:again, what sales, if your engagement rate's really high,
Speaker:What sales are you generating? Are you now selling yourself? If you're doing it for like £300 and
Speaker:you're generating £3,000 worth of sales, where
Speaker:do you sit with that? But it could be, okay, you do it at that
Speaker:rate for, say, six months, you prove the value, you go, okay, I
Speaker:can see, you can see what I've brought in, or if they've got like a discount code, you
Speaker:can really measure that, like, between. And that's
Speaker:where I'm hoping to then, like, once I've done the deal, I can say, okay, you've given
Speaker:them a code, or we can see the engagement. You can now, like,
Speaker:give us a report on what you've seen on your side. and then we can go
Speaker:okay let's adjust the deal if it's down it's down if it's up it's
Speaker:up but you it's are they proving value yes or no yeah
Speaker:absolutely you getting out of it what you want from it yes okay so let's make it
Speaker:more fair let's increase it a little bit because you've got the budget yeah
Speaker:Well, hopefully working with people like yourself is going to give some sort of clarity on
Speaker:that, that we can set a sort of standard of kind of
Speaker:like a standard of engagement with brands. But
Speaker:I get it, you know, being an agency that works
Speaker:kind of on behalf of the brand, we'll take a cheap influencer, like
Speaker:we'll do it. As much as I'm like, Oh, this isn't good
Speaker:for your industry. I'm like, I'll take it because I can get him and him and her.
Speaker:And that that's all within budget. And that's, and that's great. And
Speaker:I'll take that free content. But there is a,
Speaker:yeah, there's, there's this, this kind of something for everyone. And the
Speaker:product thing is a weird one, because you know, you know, we'll get reviewers
Speaker:is a really interesting one, because of course, you know, their content, their
Speaker:value, their income comes from
Speaker:perhaps YouTube or whatever sponsors of that
Speaker:particular show. They're not actually necessarily getting money from the brand
Speaker:because that'd be disingenuous. So they're essentially doing stuff kind
Speaker:of for free for I guess for
Speaker:the brands which benefits the brands obviously if it's a good product and they review it well. So
Speaker:there's them to think about as well, which aren't just being like,
Speaker:hey, I'm using like Fisher today or whoever, and we're
Speaker:doing these kinds of products on this particular job. And
Speaker:that's kind of just brand awareness and stuff like that. If they're physically going, I've
Speaker:got the new such and such product, and I'm going to
Speaker:review it today. And if a brand was paying
Speaker:them for that, that obviously would be dodge, super
Speaker:Yeah, it's one of those that some people take
Speaker:it or leave it with that? Because some people will see it as, oh, you're only being paid to say
Speaker:it. So some people will like switch off from a brand because of
Speaker:it. But some people will be like, if they've seen them using
Speaker:it over time and then they get the deal, it's like, okay, it
Speaker:seems a bit more genuine because you've used the product over time. They've seen
Speaker:them using it, they've been tagging them, sharing it, whatever for a while, then
Speaker:the deal comes. That's where I think it provides
Speaker:more value within the industry for people watching the content as well.
Speaker:Cause it doesn't seem like you say, it doesn't feel forced and it doesn't
Speaker:feel like disingenuous because they've actually been using it for a
Speaker:long time. Whereas it's just like sometimes people be like working away
Speaker:with one product, but because they can get paid with another one, they quickly
Speaker:switch. And it's like, well, but why? Some
Speaker:people just switch brands or some people just do the deal for the money. And
Speaker:And a lot of people there's a lot of people that will
Speaker:have already like they've seen it or the industry there's not many out there
Speaker:which is a good thing but there's a few that have done. but
Speaker:they've lost all credibility with the industry. And you see it on social media
Speaker:or you hear it at events about
Speaker:people going, oh yeah, well they're only on that stand because they're being paid or
Speaker:not because they use it. And there's a lot of talk about, oh,
Speaker:they're using so many influences. It's like, yeah, but are they? Are
Speaker:they actually paying them all? Or is it a lot of people will use it for the
Speaker:love of the product or the quality of the product? So
Speaker:there's a whole mixed bag of feeling and
Speaker:review. No, it's completely rainbowed. It would
Speaker:be so much easier if it was black and white. Like it's good product. Use
Speaker:Yeah. Yeah. Cause you are going to get these creators that are
Speaker:just like, I'm just doing this for fun. I like the product. Give me the product and I'll
Speaker:do it. And you're like, Oh, okay. As a, as a, as a, I
Speaker:guess, a ambassador for the brand. I'm like, cool. Ego.
Speaker:Yeah, that was easy. Give me the content. Thank you very
Speaker:much. It's a tough one, isn't it? But the
Speaker:I think the difference with the guys that you know, that aren't doing this as
Speaker:a paid thing or whatever, or certainly like low, low
Speaker:cost stuff is there's
Speaker:a tendency for them to be less reliable. If you need that content, then
Speaker:you need to have some sort of contract in place with somebody who is
Speaker:delivering content on a regular basis, ideally who has access to the
Speaker:right amount of jobs for this particular product. And that's when
Speaker:you've got to start thinking about a really specific
Speaker:Yeah. And this is why I sort of created that, the Influencer Hub to try and help
Speaker:with that. And like a lot of people will just do deals off
Speaker:a phone call or off a message. It's like, okay, but nothing's really
Speaker:in writing. You don't know where you stand. The brand,
Speaker:like you say, if they want content, you could turn around and go, well, nothing's
Speaker:in writing. I don't have to do this. You just phoned me and asked me to do
Speaker:Yeah, handshake under the table kind of thing. It's like, well, hang on, let's put
Speaker:something in writing. If I have to write that for you, I'm happy to because I'd rather protect you
Speaker:protect the band. Everyone wins, rather than it being
Speaker:they don't really know what they want from the influencer. The influencer doesn't really know
Speaker:what they want. It's like, okay, well, how many posts would you physically
Speaker:be able to create for them a month. Three reels because of
Speaker:the time it takes. Fine. Okay. Maximum of three reels. Include
Speaker:that in and vice versa. Cause some of them, and
Speaker:I know I'm not going to name drop cause it's not fair, but I do some guys, they come to
Speaker:me and they're like, look, I'm good on the tools. I'm good at what I do, but
Speaker:I'm rubbish when it comes to emails or reading contracts. And
Speaker:I don't mind if people just drop me a message, but can you just, read
Speaker:over this and make sure I'm not going to get screwed over. I'm not getting caught out. I'm like,
Speaker:yeah, join the hub. We'll go through it and I'll pick it apart. And some people
Speaker:are scared that when they do that collaboration with a brand, they're going to be like, oh,
Speaker:here's a script. Okay. But if I read from that
Speaker:script, I'm going to lose credibility. So we can go, okay, great. Let's
Speaker:take that script. Let's read through what they're trying,
Speaker:the key points of what they're trying to say. Let's reword it in your terminology,
Speaker:how you would speak, send it back to them and say, look, We're happy
Speaker:to do the script, but this is how we want to deliver it. Because
Speaker:again, it's still genuine because you could be like, Oh, hello, my name's Emma.
Speaker:And it's right. All right. My name's like how you actually deliver that message is
Speaker:key for the engagement. Cause if it feels too forced
Speaker:or too properly scripted, everyone's going to go, Oh, this is just a script and
Speaker:Because there's a thing where like, and we've come across this, ideally, we
Speaker:won't stop in writing, because from the point
Speaker:of view of the brand, we want to make sure that if you
Speaker:need to be delivering what we've what we're paying you for, and if you
Speaker:don't deliver that, that's grounds for discussion, essentially.
Speaker:And no one's allowed to be upset about like, you know, if
Speaker:it's like, oh, well, You didn't make
Speaker:the right amount of content. It's all written down, set
Speaker:in stone. If you didn't deliver that, we can discuss either going
Speaker:in a different direction or maybe doing or doing something to two
Speaker:pieces of content next month or whatever. And even if you've
Speaker:got a situation where you're like, I don't want to commit as
Speaker:a content creator. I don't want to commit to one or two
Speaker:reels a month. I want to do content where possible around
Speaker:the one reel a month type thing. We're aiming for 12 reels
Speaker:in a year, let's say. Let's put that in a contract. You
Speaker:can still have, I guess, a contract that's loose, you
Speaker:know, and just be like, I'm going to try and do this, but I need you to be aware
Speaker:of if this doesn't happen, Um, that's, that doesn't go against
Speaker:Exactly. They've then got that flexibility. So even if it is like
Speaker:12 reels in a year, but they've got a big project coming up that
Speaker:they could do three or four. Yes. Perfect. It's
Speaker:then got more of a push. You think like by the end of the year, you haven't got a stress thinking,
Speaker:Oh, it's coming up to Christmas. I've got nothing with this product that I can do. Yeah.
Speaker:I don't need to, I've already done my 12. 100%. you've
Speaker:got that, they can just take that chill, they've not got the pressure. Because
Speaker:when content's pressured, that's when it will then take even longer to
Speaker:And that's okay. And I think that's more
Speaker:than anything, because like there's some out there that, again, have
Speaker:messaged me being like, can you help me? And
Speaker:it's like, well, yeah, what's the problem? They're like, oh, I'm doing some
Speaker:work with a brand, and they're doing work with some other people, and I know they're
Speaker:getting paid. But my agreement, I'm not getting paid. I
Speaker:said, well, let's look at it. And it's by that point, unfortunately, some
Speaker:of them might have already signed it or agreed to it. And it's like, well, can't
Speaker:do anything this time, because this is the bit where you've, like you
Speaker:say, if they don't understand what they're looking at, it's like completely gone,
Speaker:or they glaze over, or it's just missing. And they've signed it
Speaker:going, oh, great, it's a deal. Let's get it done. And it's like, oh, hang on a minute. Have you
Speaker:So A lot of these guys are accidental influencers, aren't they? Exactly. It's
Speaker:not their plan. It wasn't in their business model to
Speaker:go, right, I want to get X amount of followers. And by the time I get to this point, I've got
Speaker:these things in place. A lot of these guys are like overnight successes. They're
Speaker:just like, shit, I don't know what I'm doing. It's all coming at once. What
Speaker:do I do? Panic? I've got these huge brands coming to me and they're offering me money. I'm
Speaker:like, great. And then you can be the voice of reason going, actually, you
Speaker:that. The other day mate was like can you just look at this and I'm like okay so
Speaker:if you were charging this for what they're
Speaker:asking they should be paying you this and they're only offering you this.
Speaker:wrote him a little email right send them that yeah and
Speaker:he's managed to get an extra like five six seven hundred a pound out of them
Speaker:by just sort of going okay it
Speaker:sounds fair yeah but for what you're asking i would be charging you
Speaker:this yes is there any wiggle room and they've then gone oh
Speaker:but it's on the budget i'm like well is it though you're a big company
Speaker:yeah and then all of a sudden they've gone from this offer to this offer and
Speaker:Yeah. I mean, the worst you can do is ask. And I think a lot of people are too scared to
Speaker:ask. Yeah. Especially when it's them. I'm not scared to ask. Yeah, exactly. Because
Speaker:you're a third party. You'd be like, my client would like more than that. Yeah.
Speaker:Based on the amount of value they can. You're not being a dick about it.
Speaker:Like you say, or they might not have the time to push back. Or by the due, it's
Speaker:like 8, 9 PM when they're actually sitting down and looking at their emails. By
Speaker:that point, you've lost the day of negotiation. And it'd be
Speaker:like, oh, we want to start on Wednesday. it's now Tuesday morning
Speaker:by the time they see it, they don't see it till Tuesday night, you've lost two days worth
Speaker:of sorting stuff. So that's hopefully where I
Speaker:And you understand as well, that
Speaker:like, all this kind of stuff, it's got zero emotion
Speaker:attached to it, from your brand, from yourself. But when it's the actual creator
Speaker:and it's their income, it's their work, they're so emotionally attached to
Speaker:They take it personally when people are like, oh no, that's all you're worth. Yeah. It's like, okay,
Speaker:let's look at it then. Yeah. Let's say, okay, let's drop the value, but
Speaker:we want this much product per month. Yeah. So that's then making up
Speaker:for that loss value. And they'll be like, oh yeah, that's fine. It's like, they're okay with
Speaker:the value and the product going up, but not the money. As soon as it's a number,
Speaker:Because the marketers have just got a pot. They've just got a pot that they
Speaker:can pull from and go, OK, we've got 100 grand to spend that's
Speaker:left over on stuff. I'm going to put
Speaker:a little bit aside for miscellaneous bits and bobs and a little bit of merch drops
Speaker:and stuff. And then I've got this little pool of stuff here for
Speaker:influencers or whoever. And
Speaker:then they'll just be like, mm. They'll probably, at the point of
Speaker:speaking to, a one creator they're probably
Speaker:speaking to like five or six or seven or eight or nine or whatever at the same time
Speaker:and they're all they're starting to add stuff they go okay that sounds good that sounds good so
Speaker:they start to see their sort of part dwindle and they get them when they get to the last person they're just
Speaker:like um this is you know this is what we've got but actually there is
Speaker:there's always there's always wiggle room and again it's there's there's no
Speaker:emotion attached to it it's just a case of this is what we got can
Speaker:you do it so like you said sometimes it's like well if there's no wiggle
Speaker:room with the budget, then you've got to compromise on the
Speaker:value. If you still want that work, if it's worth it to you, you just
Speaker:Yeah, because next year when the budgets come out and they're bigger, hopefully,
Speaker:they'll see what they've done in those few reels and go, actually, they're
Speaker:now top of the list. Now they'll get more. Sometimes you've got to,
Speaker:it sounds bad, but you've almost got like, people have approached you, but you've still
Speaker:got to prove your value. And I'm like, but
Speaker:at the same time, you've approached them. You've picked them
Speaker:for a reason. But obviously on the other side of it, I'm also reaching out on
Speaker:behalf of that person to the brand and say, look, they
Speaker:use your products all the time. Why not
Speaker:do a deal? Because it's like one of your episodes, you're talking about how
Speaker:important micro-influencers are. And they are. You could have
Speaker:between 1,000 followers and 10,000 followers and prove more
Speaker:value than someone who's got 100,000. Because it could be out
Speaker:of your 10,000 followers, 9,000 interact and
Speaker:engage. Out of your 100,000, still only 9,000 interact. So
Speaker:who's proving more value at less cost? And I
Speaker:think that's a lot of what brands need to see. They're like, oh, yeah, but he's got more followers.
Speaker:Right, great. What's his engagement in comparison? Like
Speaker:is his word or trusted by those people that follow him? Is
Speaker:it a genuine following? Is it purchased? Like that's
Speaker:what a lot of brands just see that big following number and that's all they
Speaker:say. They're like, oh yeah, but he's got a great following. But is it though?
Speaker:I do a lot. Yeah. So I was sort of when people contact me
Speaker:or I'm reaching out to a brand and say, look, here's the engagement rate. I've seen the
Speaker:guys you're using. Yeah. Here's that in comparison to them. They're
Speaker:sitting on the same level just because they're following numbers like might be
Speaker:miles apart, but the engagement rates the same. So you could get
Speaker:the same value for less cost. So
Speaker:why not consider them? And that's sort of another angle I'm coming out trying
Speaker:to reach and say to the guys that have approached me now, okay, what brands would you like
Speaker:to work with? Which products do you use on a daily rather
Speaker:than are just, I want to work with that brand because
Speaker:it's that brand, but do you use their products? Because if you don't, there's
Speaker:no point. Because again, it's like we said earlier, you could stick
Speaker:Yes. And so their influence goes, drops massively.
Speaker:Massively. And then that engagement rate that you've thrown to the brand as a
Speaker:sort of bargaining tool, in a sense, goes out the window because it
Speaker:It's so ball tight. It's actually quite scary. I wouldn't want to be it. I
Speaker:I don't know. I think it could be quite fun in the sense that when people
Speaker:come to you, but this is why I'm not. I'm that person in
Speaker:the middle because I've dealt with it. I know both sides of it because I've
Speaker:been the brand and I used to look after the influencers, but
Speaker:I'm now on the other side of it where the influencers like help. I'm
Speaker:like, well, I know I've done both sides. I can talk business to brands,
Speaker:but I can also talk trading. So hopefully I can
Speaker:be that. weird one in the middle that helped me make it all work.
Speaker:I guarantee you 100% if I was an influencer, I
Speaker:would I would be the guy that gets shadow banned. Because I'm
Speaker:so ruthless when it comes to like money. I've got no loyalty at
Speaker:all when it comes to like brands and stuff like that. Obviously, you know, very grateful
Speaker:to the brands that work with us and stuff like that. But as an agency, of course,
Speaker:it's not about loyalty. It's about getting paid. Yeah, it's kind of different than
Speaker:being an influencer. Whereas, you know, you're looking to build influence
Speaker:through loyalty and trust. Exactly. Whereas I
Speaker:would be like, who's going to pay me more? Cool. I
Speaker:would never blame someone for doing that. But it's
Speaker:Yeah, you can see like both sides, like as a brand to brand, you
Speaker:can be like, oh, who's going to pay me to do the work better? Exactly. Perfect. You're
Speaker:going to be my client. Whereas like as an influencer, it's like, okay, where
Speaker:am I going to keep credibility? Yes. Where am I going to damage my
Speaker:And you could potentially lose money by being more loyal, but
Speaker:you have a better longevity. Yeah,
Speaker:But it's a lot of people as well with like say events
Speaker:and stuff, and they want the influencers on the stand. How do you get treated
Speaker:by that brand? Are you just, oh, great, stand over there, talk to
Speaker:these people. Great, we're going for food, see you later. Or
Speaker:is it, right, everyone's in, everyone get food, have you had lunch?
Speaker:No, go for a break. It's how you get, it's that sort of, it's the whole package.
Speaker:And a lot of people overlook that, especially when it comes to like the events
Speaker:and things, because as fun as they are, they are draining.
Speaker:Like take Installer. three days on your feet chatting to
Speaker:In horrible, either freezing cold or you're sweating like a pig. There was no
Speaker:in between this year. And it's like, well, who's looking after you
Speaker:at the end of the day? Who's going, I'll go for a walk, go get a beer, go speak to
Speaker:people or going, right, have you gone and spoken to people for
Speaker:your business? No, no, not yet. Go. Yeah. Like spend
Speaker:Yeah, go and network, go and build that relationship or continue that
Speaker:But at the same time, though, you know, like, um, I
Speaker:will go and speak to our clients competitors. So we've got non-competes on
Speaker:on certain things. and with certain brands, I'll still go and speak
Speaker:to them. Because my, you know, some of some of the biggest brands that we
Speaker:work with, who we're, you know, super, super friendly with,
Speaker:you know, we go out for drinks, and you know, we I would love to see
Speaker:I'm not gonna be working with these guys when I'm 65. I can guarantee you something's
Speaker:gonna happen. Our contact's going to move or there's going
Speaker:to be some sort of budget changes. Eventually you need
Speaker:to mix it up. It's good to mix it up. You can't stick with the same agency forever.
Speaker:I'm just speaking to them. Sometimes it just takes a gentle conversation. Because like
Speaker:you say, sometimes with content, if you see the same brand all the time, it
Speaker:can get stale. And you do need to mix it up. Or
Speaker:like you say, if there's an opportunity with a competitor or something
Speaker:that's close, but not quite, if your NDA or
Speaker:your deal with them is coming towards an end, it's like, okay, I'm going to
Speaker:reach out to a few and see, okay, what's my loyalty worth? Because
Speaker:I could get more elsewhere. I'm not going to take that information because
Speaker:we've signed the NDA, but still, are you going to look after me
Speaker:the way they did? Yes. No. Okay. Perfect. Right. Okay. You're now on level fields. Do
Speaker:you offer this? Do you offer that? No. Okay. So where
Speaker:Yeah, at the end of the day, from an influencer's perspective and an agency's
Speaker:perspective, the brand, it does
Speaker:not care about you. Not really. Everyone's a number. To
Speaker:some extent, as in, like, there might be individuals that care about you in
Speaker:that brand, and maybe even some of the higher ups. But
Speaker:at the same time, when it comes to whether, you know, like
Speaker:looking after their staff themselves, the brand or looking after you,
Speaker:Who's making the sale? If times are
Speaker:hard, are they going to be laying off some of their team members that
Speaker:have been there forever or are they going to keep paying that influencer? That's actually
Speaker:Like you say, it's a catch-22. It's like, well, hang on. Has the influencer brought
Speaker:in more money than that person? Yeah. And then it's like, well, hang on. They've
Speaker:been with us for 10 years. They've been with us 10 months and brought in more. They're a drain. Where
Speaker:Yeah, I wouldn't want to be in that situation. Luckily, It's
Speaker:a pretty semi-safe industry to be in, construction,
Speaker:which is one of the reasons why we love working in it. Going
Speaker:back to, so we've got the influencer hub, we've got the stuff that you do. So
Speaker:you're not only looking after the brands, brands are paying you
Speaker:to do cool stuff, influencers are doing the same, right? So you're on
Speaker:both sides of the, and then you can figure out a way for
Speaker:I've had one recently again where I was sort of already speaking
Speaker:to brand, guy joined the hub, sends me an
Speaker:email going, oh, I had this email. I'm like, perfect. I know everything about that because I
Speaker:had a meeting two days ago with the brand. So I just emailed the brand saying,
Speaker:look, the guy you've emailed, he's actually now part of the hub. Let's
Speaker:talk. Let's get it done. We'll figure it out. Already done. Content's out. Invoices
Speaker:And for transparency essentially
Speaker:how that works is let's say you've got content
Speaker:creators influencers looking to start
Speaker:to work with brands they want to they perhaps want to get like a media pack or something you'll
Speaker:charge them for that as an individual thing. You might have
Speaker:a retainer or project work with a particular brand and
Speaker:if there's some kind of collaboration between an influencer and a and
Speaker:a brand, you'll perhaps take something from that engagement as
Speaker:Yeah, so with the hub, I only sort of created it,
Speaker:started it in June. So again, still in its infancy. Loving
Speaker:it. I think as soon as I put the post out there and said I was going to do it
Speaker:and the positive reaction, I thought, okay, I've done the right thing. People can
Speaker:actually see this being a thing. So I've got, I'm going to structure that if a brand approaches me
Speaker:to get an influencer, it'll be the monthly fee
Speaker:for them, and anything like commission-wise, once it's
Speaker:over its time period, will come from them. So the influencer isn't losing
Speaker:out because I've then approached them on behalf of the brand. If
Speaker:the influencers come to me and say, I've got a deal going with this brand, can you help? It's
Speaker:then the influencer. So it depends on who's approaching. Cause it's like, okay, I
Speaker:could take a fee from both and quids in and
Speaker:take commission from both. But that's not how I want to do it. I want to do it with who's
Speaker:approached, who's asked for that deal to be done
Speaker:and take it from that side. Cause I feel at
Speaker:that point, if it's from the influencer side, we can then build in that commission drop
Speaker:into their service price. So they still get out of it what they want. I
Speaker:It's like the sort of Groupon sort of mentality or whatever of just like, OK,
Speaker:we're going to do this. It looks like it's a super cheap sort of deal. But
Speaker:essentially what you did is just before this deal went out, you put your prices up by 20% or something
Speaker:Yeah, and Amazon. You get the Amazon deals and all that kind of thing. So
Speaker:I think, oh, that looks reasonable. But actually, it was that price two weeks ago. It's just they put it
Speaker:It just means that everyone wins. It means that, like, say, the influence is
Speaker:not then getting screwed on it because I'm taking a cut. They're still getting what
Speaker:they wanted from it. from it yeah and i'm not losing
Speaker:out for just doing days worth of work for a small
Speaker:monthly fee just to have me at their disposal day
Speaker:or night they phone they text they email help or i
Speaker:need this i'm like i think that's massive because like first
Speaker:It's a bit like anything in this industry, like I think
Speaker:people get a bit weird about agents fees and stuff like that. And they're
Speaker:like, oh, it's like, I'm like shady or whatever. And we're
Speaker:a little bit different because we're just essentially, we
Speaker:get paid for services. We're not really that kind of agency.
Speaker:you've had to take time to like, build relationships with like
Speaker:the brands, you got to get to know those guys got to take time out,
Speaker:you got to come and do stuff like this, like you don't get paid for same with
Speaker:the same same thing with influencers that they're building their audience for free for such a
Speaker:long time. Yeah. And then when you get
Speaker:that, you know, essentially, An influencer or
Speaker:a brand, let's do the influencer kind of thing. An
Speaker:influencer could come to you and say, hey, I want two more clients in two
Speaker:months. And you can potentially go and do that. You can go, cool. Like
Speaker:you can figure out the ways of doing that. But essentially, long and
Speaker:short of it, you could go and find those brands and get those deals organized.
Speaker:Imagine if they tried to do that. Imagine how much time that would take. You
Speaker:And no one gets ruined in the process because so many people will get annoyed at
Speaker:a brand for not getting back to them. They then get a bad name for not getting back to
Speaker:them. It's like, well, hang on a minute. If I know there's a deadline, I'll be
Speaker:going, okay, where are we at? Or emailing where we're at, messaging, doing
Speaker:that timeless piece. in the middle, so
Speaker:the influencer or creator can carry on creating or
Speaker:just cracking on with the job they've got. Because if they've got to keep stopping and
Speaker:answer the phone or answer an email throughout the day, all that time's lost.
Speaker:That project might now take an extra week because of it. Whereas
Speaker:Yeah. And also you can, you can almost be like an interpreter because
Speaker:there is a certain type of dialogue with brands and
Speaker:with marketers. If it's a big company and you're working with essentially marketing
Speaker:directors, marketing managers and stuff like that, they've got a very different lingo
Speaker:to the guys that are the boots on the ground, guys and girls that are on the tools.
Speaker:They talk in a different way. And that's cool. That's genuine. That's why we love the
Speaker:industry. But it's nice to be
Speaker:the person in the middle that can understand all the lingo from
Speaker:the marketers, and you know what they want to hear, you know how to
Speaker:approach those guys. And then you can interpret that back
Speaker:to the creator, who perhaps, you know, isn't
Speaker:Yeah, or say as it is, but won't see that little bit
Speaker:With some influencers in the construction industry, you do not
Speaker:want those guys speaking to the people who are paying them. Could you imagine? There's
Speaker:some people that we've worked with and some people that I know or are in
Speaker:my network that I'm just like, you need to never speak to the people that are paying
Speaker:Exactly. You could have someone that's perhaps a little bit more careful,
Speaker:a little bit more savvy to the business side of things and stuff like that. Brands
Speaker:are good and we are good at trying to get a
Speaker:deal. If we're trying to get a good deal, we'll ask questions in specific
Speaker:times which will warrant a better answer from
Speaker:They're not going to buy your time, your effort. There's
Speaker:some creators out there that I'm like, I cannot stand talking to
Speaker:them because they're so fucking arrogant or
Speaker:whatever. But their content is amazing. But
Speaker:the fact that they're a complete tosser has stopped us from working
Speaker:with them. Whereas if they had like an intermediary, someone
Speaker:in the middle, like an Emma, that's like, hey, this is
Speaker:my client, they can do this for you, and you don't need to speak to this guy. You don't need to deal
Speaker:You're like, great, because I can get that quality of content and not have to deal with the
Speaker:100%. That would be amazing for us. And that's actually
Speaker:a really good point, because it's not just
Speaker:brands and creators and influencers that
Speaker:can use you, but agencies like us, because we don't do that kind of thing. I've
Speaker:thought several times, because of the people that we work with in our network,
Speaker:maybe I could set up like something like an influencer agency. Then I sort of think, nah,
Speaker:See, I find that fun because when I was in sales side, obviously you'd have to
Speaker:deal with like the internal sales guys at the business. But I also get
Speaker:to be on the phone to the tradies and being a female in such a male dominated
Speaker:environment, it was so much fun. Like they'd phone up
Speaker:and be like, oh, can I speak to someone in technical? You're speaking to her and
Speaker:you just hear the tone of voice be like, oh or like it
Speaker:was a message through Instagram like hi mate I'm looking for this shit like yeah no worries by
Speaker:the way it's Emma here if you need anything like oh thanks love I'm like I'm no longer your mate I'm
Speaker:now love and it's like how the terminology changes instantly
Speaker:when they're like oh it's a female yeah or like you'd be at a show they're like
Speaker:oh I've been speaking to someone on Instagram I'm like yeah that's me they're like no I've been speaking to someone
Speaker:on Instagram I was like yeah still me still me yeah they're
Speaker:like i do know what i'm talking oh they then look at you like there's like six
Speaker:foot and turning over and you're like yes little old me yeah
Speaker:that was and yeah it still surprises people doesn't it and i love it's one
Speaker:of those it's again you walk into like a car showroom yeah oh it's female
Speaker:yeah i know more about this car than you yeah and i schooled a guy on it
Speaker:once and he was like I'm just going to go get a colleague for you.
Speaker:And I was like, you have nothing to say. You don't know where you
Speaker:put your foot in your mouth and how to get it out. And yeah, it's one
Speaker:of those. I think a lot of the females in the industry as well will say the
Speaker:same. It sounds strange. It's
Speaker:that feeling of, I've proved you wrong. I
Speaker:can do it. Be aware that I can do it. Don't
Speaker:think, oh, a female can't do it. Can't lift it or can't lift or move
Speaker:or fix this. I do the DIY at
Speaker:home. I have to say, yeah, you carry on. You've grown up on it.
Speaker:I'm not getting my hands dirty. He's like, we redid the garden. He's like, what do we need? How
Speaker:do I do it? I'm like, right, we need this, this, this. Let's
Speaker:I'm like, the problem is, you can't explain all of this to
Speaker:a person every, every time you get some sort of, like prejudice. Yeah,
Speaker:you can't roll out that spiel. You haven't got enough time. You
Speaker:just sort of soak in the moment. You really want to fucking lay
Speaker:Okay. Because you end up looking like a psycho if
Speaker:you're just like, right, let me explain to you all the reasons why you're wrong in
Speaker:this situation and why you should have thought about
Speaker:the way that you phrased what you just said. and
Speaker:uh yeah it's it's too long of a process so
Speaker:a lot of the time you just go you're just a fucking sexist or whatever and
Speaker:you know move on a favorite thing used to be with like the customer service side
Speaker:of things we would be like okay you're gonna shout down the phone and call me a stupid cow that's
Speaker:One time, a guy literally like chewed my ear off for something that
Speaker:we hadn't done. He had fitted it wrong and he wasn't listening to how
Speaker:I was trying to tell him to undo what he'd done wrong and fix
Speaker:it. First time ever, he actually phoned up the day after
Speaker:and apologized. He was like, oh, he
Speaker:got back inside and his missus looked at him and went, you feel bad now, don't you?
Speaker:And he was like, yeah, I do. Phoned me the next day, I thought, fair
Speaker:And I was like, you're probably one in a million that's actually got to go.
Speaker:Oh, yeah, no, I took it out on her and it wasn't her fault.
Speaker:But with the customer service side, when you're in sales and stuff, the best phrase we
Speaker:have ever used, kill them with kindness. Yeah. Because they don't know what
Speaker:If you don't, and you're just like, okay, what
Speaker:Going back to influencers, what
Speaker:are the things that you are, you're seeing and that you've seen that
Speaker:are bad practices? What's the thing you see the most often
Speaker:Yeah, I'd say a lot of it will be like, the quality of
Speaker:the content. Because sometimes it's like, oh, you might do an
Speaker:amazing clip, but it'd be like really fuzzy or really grainy. And
Speaker:But clean your lens, clean your lens. Like first, first
Speaker:one, clean your fucking lens. I
Speaker:literally I see it all the time. But to be fair, Molly,
Speaker:like our like content creator, one of the best
Speaker:photographers I've known. Yeah. super, super talented,
Speaker:super creative. She used to do BTS for us. Yeah, on
Speaker:like a phone and stuff like that. Just like I'm just like, dude, if I ever get to get a few shots
Speaker:of BTS, like we don't want to do like anything with like our, you
Speaker:know, big production cameras, just just get some shots for Instagram on
Speaker:stories. I've always been like, Why does Molly's
Speaker:BTS always look shit? I'm like, what's wrong with your phone, Molly?
Speaker:What phone is it? What camera you got? It's always been shit.
Speaker:I'm not sure. I think I might have dropped it in the bath or something like that. I
Speaker:can't remember. And I'm like, oh mate, give
Speaker:it here. And I'm like, it's fucking covered in makeup. And
Speaker:I'm like, you're a professional photographer, how did you not realise that
Speaker:you had to clean your lens? It's literally like the first thing I ever do. First
Speaker:thing I do is like, yep, straight on the belly. It
Speaker:doesn't matter who, if someone says, can you do us a favour, can you take a picture? First thing I do is check
Speaker:the lens. Yeah, I don't want this to, yeah. Honestly, it
Speaker:was like, it was like a revelation to her. But so if it can happen to Molly,
Speaker:it can happen to construction influencers. And of course, that's quite a messy environment anyway.
Speaker:Massively. And I sort of, it's one of those as well, like with the audio, because
Speaker:it could be like, great, but all you can hear is like diggers in the background, all like, you're
Speaker:Your mic's over there and you've had to turn it up so that they can hear you over here.
Speaker:But like, even you can get like the 20 pound mics on Amazon. It's not a bank break.
Speaker:You don't have to get like the fancy DJI ones or whatever it may be. I
Speaker:bought a pair that are like 50 quid on Amazon. Yeah, it's better than nothing. and
Speaker:it's like when I'm out doing the content with the guys I'm like just stick that on
Speaker:because if you're walking into a shot you're not going to hear anything until
Speaker:you're next to me with the camera so I think it'll just be paying
Speaker:attention to what they're actually trying to do. Up the game, but
Speaker:also like with the environment. Some of the times you can take a picture if it's like a still, like
Speaker:at events, for example, when you're setting it up, hide the coffee cup for
Speaker:goodness sake. Just little
Speaker:details that people like you say you might not miss, but as you, if you're watching it as
Speaker:a brand, you're looking for that attention to detail in their content.
Speaker:And that could be the be-all or make-all, like you say, makeup on the lens or
Speaker:a scratch on the lens or like a cracked camera and stuff like that. Just, I
Speaker:think the little bits of just tidy it up, make it look how
Speaker:you want it to look. You're representing yourself. It's your
Speaker:brand and your personal, but like, just tidy up. Even
Speaker:like, this like with your clothes and things like that I
Speaker:know obviously it's construction it's you're going to be a bit messy but
Speaker:if it's got a rip in the t-shirt change your t-shirt like just a little bit
Speaker:it doesn't have to be perfectly polished and clean and ironed because again
Speaker:you're a tradie in the trade environment but I have a
Speaker:Yeah it's like you know like a classic example is like the
Speaker:shit old faded polo like Fruit of the Loom polo shirt that's just
Speaker:like 10 years old where the where the collar is kind of like curling up
Speaker:a little bit and stuff like that you know. Making me nervous now. I'm rocking
Speaker:So, great takeaways. If
Speaker:you want your content to look better and be more appealing to brands, clean
Speaker:your fucking lens. Tidy it up. Get the audio sorted. Get some of them cheap
Speaker:It's like their little news presenter. Just clip the fucking thing on.
Speaker:Some people, when I was doing content, didn't want it in the picture but wanted the audio,
Speaker:clipped on the back of his hood. oh yeah on the back so it's not in shot you've
Speaker:got the big old fluffy muffle yeah or like on the side of the hat some of the guys
Speaker:i'm putting on the hat so like because with the dji's you've got the magnets it goes inside
Speaker:yes just a little bit more subtle because yeah with a little fluffy little magnets
Speaker:a good shout to be fair typically i mean we're a professional production company
Speaker:so what we'll do is with loads of ways you can hide lav mics will typically when
Speaker:we use a um like like we use the dji's for
Speaker:But we actually do attach like a lavalier mic to it because you are going to get
Speaker:better quality then. Because the on-board
Speaker:microphone of the DJI is actually not very good. So if you actually
Speaker:attach like just, it doesn't have to be a mega lavalier, like
Speaker:50 quid will get you an alright one. But then you can just use little stickies and
Speaker:stick it underneath your hoodie or something like that. And it's a little bit more subtle.
Speaker:Of course if it's like windy outside and stuff that protects it from that. I
Speaker:Sometimes if they have it too close as they're moving, if they've got a
Speaker:Yeah, it's like, just sort of like you say, almost like the placement of
Speaker:it. Just again, this is the tidying up. Just think, you
Speaker:say, even just do like a little test clip. How does it sound? How does
Speaker:it feel? I saw one of the guys the other day just bought some new mics and he sat in his kitchen just
Speaker:doing like mic checks to see how loud he needs to speak or how far
Speaker:away he can be and vice versa. So it's he can up
Speaker:They're really cheap or free things that you can do
Speaker:to make your content more appealing. What
Speaker:about on the business side of things? What kind of things are you seeing done
Speaker:poorly by influencers that you wish
Speaker:A lot of it will be tidying up the aesthetic of maybe the page, with
Speaker:logos and stuff like that, or the way it's presented. Some
Speaker:people will have inconsistency with how they do an overlay
Speaker:of a caption. You'll look at their grid on Instagram, for example, and it'll
Speaker:be like, picture, picture, picture, giant caption, picture, picture, giant caption. There's
Speaker:no consistency. It's either a few of each or
Speaker:little bits, but then the captions like green in one and yellow in the other. And you're like,
Speaker:okay, what's your brand or like use your brand identity or
Speaker:your key like colors for your brand in
Speaker:And there's so many like free tools out there that you can use. I use some.
Speaker:I only pay for some of them to get better quality
Speaker:Yeah. Or download in a higher version or a different style of download.
Speaker:But it would just be like, I know Installer,
Speaker:but everyone changes their profile picture from their brand logo to their face so people know
Speaker:who it is when they're talking to them. Change it back. Don't forget that it's either
Speaker:one of you in your branded workwear or your logo. But
Speaker:again, some of the logos out there, because I've helped a few
Speaker:people with logo design as well. like some of them you're
Speaker:like okay you can see that that was created on paint or like that like
Speaker:just levered it up like a bit more professional on
Speaker:that look because like you might be your work might be next level yeah but
Speaker:if the way you turn up or like you display yourself isn't
Speaker:again like you say with a faded polo yeah simple things like that just
Speaker:I think fashion is going to get more and more important in construction as
Speaker:the newer generation of trading. It's going to be how it's
Speaker:It might just not be the old school like polo
Speaker:top and jeans or like the work trousers. It's going to be the style of
Speaker:being a tradesman is on its way to becoming more
Speaker:sexy, more appealing. Let's make the trade sexy. Yeah.
Speaker:And it's due to the hard work of a lot of the people behind
Speaker:the scenes, a lot of the agencies behind the scenes and
Speaker:the trades people making it appealing for people to be
Speaker:on the trade and be passionate about the work that they do.
Speaker:and as a result of that it's going to become cooler to have the right tools,
Speaker:the right gear. You know we're already seeing this with like
Speaker:all the fancy stuff in the back of vans, like the
Speaker:racking and the fashion, it's going to be huge.
Speaker:It's all about how they present themselves, like if you turn up to like a job, the
Speaker:van's dirty, the inside's a mess, if the customer sees
Speaker:it they're thinking Well, if that's the state of their van, what's
Speaker:their workmanship like? It's a whole, not
Speaker:just all the content on the page might be all polished and perfect, but if they
Speaker:turn up looking like a scruff, you're gonna be like, hmm, really?
Speaker:There's a lot of psychology behind like that area,
Speaker:the sales element of like, you know, you get turning up to a quote
Speaker:in a, in a, like a Porsche or something like that,
Speaker:as opposed to like your van or like a battered old car. There's like, there's
Speaker:so many different kinds of psychological things going on there. What
Speaker:I'd like to talk about from the, let's say, I mean, this
Speaker:could be for anybody, someone who's already established or someone who's like looking
Speaker:to get more of a presence on social media, or they're on their way already
Speaker:to there, to the point where they're already speaking some brands. What are,
Speaker:let's say three, but it could be any number, things that they should have
Speaker:in place before they start engaging financially with
Speaker:I think a lot of it will be that they know what they want out of it. Because
Speaker:a lot of them will be like, oh, great, they've approached me. But okay, what do you want from the deal?
Speaker:Yes. Oh, no idea. Okay. So how
Speaker:can I help you if you have no idea where you want, like, have it like have set
Speaker:yourself some goals, like you say, even if it's three. Okay, I want to work
Speaker:with these three brands. I want these three things from it.
Speaker:Because if you don't really know what you want and what direction you want to go,
Speaker:how do you know which brand to say yes to? Or not saying yes to every brand, again, because
Speaker:it can, your integrity goes out the window. Because it could be,
Speaker:oh great, I've got three brands that do very similar things. how
Speaker:can you promote them all and love all the products when they're all different?
Speaker:So that could, for instance, that be, let's say I'm a trades person. Could
Speaker:that look like I would like to work with these three big brands because
Speaker:I use them. Yeah. I'd like to commit
Speaker:one day a month or no that's probably maybe two
Speaker:days a month to shoot content that could be on separate times
Speaker:and stuff like that but roughly two like you know 16 hours uh
Speaker:to shoot content for these three brands and I would like
Speaker:to be 30 grand
Speaker:better off at the end of the year as a result of that. Would that be a
Speaker:Yeah, I think at that point you can see, okay, how am I going to
Speaker:get that content? Do I need to use an agency to get the content? Do I
Speaker:need to get, again, someone who does content creation to help me get that
Speaker:level to be able to warrant that 30k at the
Speaker:end of it? So it's putting the right things in place
Speaker:but knowing what you want and then doing a plan
Speaker:for it. Even if it's like contacting you guys or me or whoever it
Speaker:may be to help with that plan, just a brainstorm. Cause it could be like,
Speaker:okay, if I want to do a content day with you guys, what's that going to take? Okay,
Speaker:I need to build that into the plan. Or do I need a media pack? What's
Speaker:that going to take? And then getting the content to go on the media pack
Speaker:and keeping up to date with it, but also being consistent with
Speaker:it all. Not just doing it for one brand, doing it for all. And
Speaker:I think that's where a lot of it, because at the back end
Speaker:of it, brands talk to each other. A lot of brands also
Speaker:might all sit on like the same level, but they might be
Speaker:owned by one big brand. So it might be like, oh, you've approached this brand, but
Speaker:they deal with five others. Is there other opportunities with different
Speaker:product ranges that they also look after that you could be tapping into?
Speaker:Or their agencies, of course, you know, like
Speaker:people like yourself, people like us will be working with multiple brands
Speaker:at the same time and, and, you know, having the same conversation. So
Speaker:I dealt, I dealt with this person on this particular brand. I think it'd be good for
Speaker:you guys as well. Or she, and you know, things like that. Yeah. There's
Speaker:Yeah. And having that, but also with it, keeping that
Speaker:communication, like you say, it's key because it could be like, okay, I'm
Speaker:trying to get your brand deal, but I also need to get hold of you to know
Speaker:where you stand on what they're offering. Because if they're like, oh, we got a deadline on
Speaker:Friday, I still can't get hold of you by Thursday. They're thinking,
Speaker:well, they're not taking this seriously. They don't want it and they'll go elsewhere. So it's
Speaker:that I know it takes time to do the messages and stuff like that, but just
Speaker:be aware of what's happening. I think more than because if
Speaker:you are trying to get to that 30K with those
Speaker:three brands, still keep using it, still
Speaker:keep posting about it, because if they see other people
Speaker:start using it more or like tagging them more, they'll be like, well, why
Speaker:do we want to use that guy? He's not even mentioned us in the last month. These
Speaker:guys have let's approach them. There's that deal gone. Yes. Keep consistent
Speaker:with what you're doing. Like you've been using them for a reason. Yeah. Why?
Speaker:Sometimes it takes a while, not because they're like, oh, I need to, I need as
Speaker:the brand, you need to see X amount of posts. It's because their financial
Speaker:year is coming up in February or whatever. And they're just like, we're
Speaker:not doing anything with this person until we get the new budget. And then we can go,
Speaker:boom, here's money. Yeah, exactly. You know, so sometimes it can
Speaker:just, it can take a while. Typically for us, like the life
Speaker:cycle of the sales cycle from introduction
Speaker:to a brand, to actually physically working with them is 12 months for us
Speaker:typically. Because by the time you've spoken
Speaker:to them, a lot of the time their budget's been spent. So it's like it's all
Speaker:about networking and communication. Going back to the things that people should
Speaker:have in place, you've got to set some goals as a
Speaker:content creator. What kind of other stuff, because we talked about media packs
Speaker:I think having one of those in place in an iso, it doesn't matter how big or small you
Speaker:are, micro-influences like we've said before can
Speaker:be so key. So I think even just having that, because then at the same time
Speaker:you can look at it and you've then got a marker of okay I created it
Speaker:on the 1st of August, okay it's now the 3rd, 5th,
Speaker:6th, whatever date it is, or halfway through the month, you can then look at where your numbers are
Speaker:now in comparison so you can see that growth. You've almost got something tangible
Speaker:rather than Like, there's the insights and you can see the growth and the falling, but
Speaker:you can say, OK, done this. Like, before I send
Speaker:the media pack off to a brand when I'm doing a deal, I will always update
Speaker:it and make sure it's there. And you're thinking, wow, OK, they've grown that much since
Speaker:Portfolio and a rate deck. So it can be like include
Speaker:pictures of them working their work. So people
Speaker:can see obviously they follow them because they know who they are. They
Speaker:want to work with them but they can also see the quality of the work they've done. But
Speaker:Yeah, it's sort of like the CV for the trade brand world
Speaker:in a way, but try and sort of you can be three, four pages, it
Speaker:can be a one pager, it can be a two pager, it can be whatever you
Speaker:want it to be. You can be like, okay, brands asked me for this, I want to show them
Speaker:this, this and this. Perfect. Okay, that's how many pages you
Speaker:because the brands want, they want that information that, you know, before they go, before
Speaker:they go any further, it's just like, cool. How much does it cost? Yeah. Um,
Speaker:we don't want to be getting into discussions right now on, and, and
Speaker:going on teams calls going cool. What kind of, you know, let me, let me learn a bit
Speaker:more about it. Yeah. Nah, fuck that. We want to know how much it's going to cost
Speaker:And at that point, if it's a yes, some, so they might go, okay,
Speaker:we're working with other people that might be charging more. Yeah. Can you
Speaker:come down on price? It's like, okay, we'll come, we can come, you can then set
Speaker:So if people go, oh, that's a bit steep. Oh, but you can come down to here, but you're
Speaker:still happy with here. Yes. You're not thinking, oh, I've just been screwed out of a deal.
Speaker:And he doesn't have to necessarily be like, okay, I'm going to put my prices up for
Speaker:this. It's more like, here's the biggest offering I have. And
Speaker:I might not even be comfortable delivering that offering.
Speaker:Great. Yeah, I'll hire someone to do it. But the
Speaker:Yeah, it could be that it's not just your time on the day, you
Speaker:might be like your labourer that you've also got to pay. Or like,
Speaker:if you've got to get someone in to do the filming, you've got to pay them. Yes. So it's all
Speaker:that whole big picture, like think about everything that
Speaker:you want, that's going to be needed to achieve that
Speaker:This is getting good now. So we've got goals. I'm an influencer. I've
Speaker:figured out my goals. Yeah, this is what I want to do. Therefore, I've got I've
Speaker:got I can create some sort of strategy around trying to do that. I've
Speaker:got my media pack, what's the next step? Hiring you? Hopefully. Yeah, because
Speaker:then you can figure out... I mean, you've probably done the media pack at this point. Yeah, I'm
Speaker:They can. I've had some that have gone, OK, I've had this done before, and you look
Speaker:and you think, OK, I mean, it works. But
Speaker:it doesn't present you in a way that you should be presented. It's
Speaker:like very basic. It might be a bit boring. It might just literally be a Word document
Speaker:like, hi, my name's Jeff. I can do this. And this
Speaker:It's a bit like how- Marketers like to see something with a bit of flair and a bit of color and
Speaker:a bit of design to it, not just a plain piece of A4 with their name, their
Speaker:And all the right numbers. All the right numbers and all the right things. Because they're just looking for
Speaker:value for money. They're
Speaker:just looking for- First of all, can we work with this person? Yeah.
Speaker:Is it tangible? Does it make sense? Does it look like a cock or
Speaker:whatever? If they're a reasonable person, can we work with this? But
Speaker:do they fit the brand? Do they fit the aesthetic? Do they fit the values? Have
Speaker:they got the right amount of followers? Have they got the right amount of engagement and content? Does
Speaker:their content look good? And what's the cost? And these are all super, super
Speaker:important things. Um, having yourself, um,
Speaker:be the person that can translate that stuff so that when
Speaker:it's, when it gets to the marketing managers or the, you know, even if
Speaker:it's like just the director. It's got the right words. It's got the right words.
Speaker:You're ticking all the boxes and it's, you know, it's, that's like, it's
Speaker:Yeah. And I think I find a lot of people will message me. Oh, I'm
Speaker:looking for a media pack. I'm like, okay, that's fine. Like I've got two brands messaging. I'm
Speaker:when do you need it by? Next week I do it, I'm like that's fine. I'll
Speaker:put pens for you in for this day, I'll get it done, I'll send you screenshots through the process so
Speaker:you can tell me if you're happy, you like it, but I need your logo, your
Speaker:contact info and a few pictures of you either working or your work
Speaker:to include because again it doesn't take a lot. WhatsApp it
Speaker:in HD, remember HD. never,
Speaker:or we transfer it, however is easiest, because if the highest quality you've
Speaker:got, the better it will look. And again, you want to show that this is
Speaker:No, it's one of those, just be prepared. Because a
Speaker:brand deal could come from anywhere, no matter the size of your following. It could be that they
Speaker:really like the way you do your videos, even if you've got like
Speaker:a smaller following. like oh we want a bit of that but with our
Speaker:product yes just be prepared for if that's what you want out
Speaker:of it and it is your end goal have one ready yeah if
Speaker:it's set up it's there all you got to do is just ask for an update on the numbers and i can
Speaker:So we've got the winning combo here, this is the triple threat. Set
Speaker:your goals, get the media pack, have you organise
Speaker:You're ready for
Speaker:And part of the Influencer Hub as like, I've got it that when they sign
Speaker:up, that's part of like, that's part of like the standard pack is
Speaker:that they get a media pack. The second they join up, that's the first thing I do. I
Speaker:then go, okay, what brands are you currently working with? Because I'll include that
Speaker:on the media pack as well, because you want to show other brands that these are the other
Speaker:ones I'm working with. Even if it's like a competitor, potentially, they'd
Speaker:be like, oh, if they've taken him on, we should, because we
Speaker:want to beat them. And if they've used him, we want to use him. So
Speaker:again, that kind of competitive nature within the brands can
Speaker:spark, okay, well, if that's what they paid, let's, let's, let's
Speaker:pay him that and give him more product. Yes. Sometimes it can really work in
Speaker:Yeah. So we want more. Yeah. If, if, if it's going on well, we
Speaker:want more. Exactly. Um, how do you feel about
Speaker:things like introductory offers, uh, and stuff like, so rather than
Speaker:jumping into bed with a brand on a monthly retained basis straight away,
Speaker:um, brand side,
Speaker:when we're sort of negotiating for our brands, we're
Speaker:thinking, I like your stuff, but how do you
Speaker:know, can we figure out a way in which but I can't fathom how
Speaker:your content would work with our products. I want to see that first before
Speaker:we before we set six months, 12 months, contracts
Speaker:and stuff. But from my point of view, that's that's a better way of
Speaker:working. That's how we've always worked as a It's very rare we
Speaker:jump into a hundred grand deal without
Speaker:doing any project work with them, just a one-off or something like
Speaker:that. We're never doing stuff for free, obviously. And typically the project work's
Speaker:more expensive because it's a one-off. How do
Speaker:I think one of two ways, because if a brand's seen you
Speaker:using their product quite a bit anyway, you might be able to just
Speaker:jump in. But if it's almost like a new approach, or you'd really want
Speaker:to work with that brand, but you haven't yet, I think it could be
Speaker:there's almost like a certain month, two month, three month, maybe like
Speaker:trial period where they just send products, and then it becomes paid.
Speaker:Because again, time is money. Everyone deserves to get paid
Speaker:fairly for their time, because they've still got to film it, edit it,
Speaker:put it out there. And I think that could
Speaker:be a winning formula if you're not too sure, or if you think it's a brand new brand. Okay,
Speaker:let's see your value, let's see what you can bring in for us, and
Speaker:then let's talk. But okay, let's put it in writing that over the next...
Speaker:month, two months, we'll send you, it might be a
Speaker:digital product, we'll give you a promo code to put out there of
Speaker:like this percentage. Okay, let's see how many people you get to sign up
Speaker:to the app or whatever it may be with that. Okay, then they
Speaker:see like a real influx. Okay, perfect. So keep
Speaker:that code going. But we're now going to pay you on the side because we can see the value
Speaker:Would you prefer then do you think from your point of view to see rather
Speaker:than just like a one off it's more like a short stint
Speaker:It depends because it depends on obviously what the brand's trying to achieve because
Speaker:if it's a product launch it might just be short stint but
Speaker:if it's they want to launch and keep pushing it out there or developing the
Speaker:same product or that product line or increasing to like that range
Speaker:you might want that The longevity side where it could be a trial, okay,
Speaker:now keep pushing it, keep pushing it, keep going. We want to
Speaker:keep you on, there's going to be new products added to the range and it's going
Speaker:to continue. I think it could be, okay, we've
Speaker:just launched a new, a hammer. A hammer is a hammer. Okay.
Speaker:It might come out in different colors, but how often can you really
Speaker:push that out there? Maybe once every few months. It might not be
Speaker:every month, because again, everyone will get bored of seeing the same thing
Speaker:from the same person. You've got to mix it up. I think sometimes too
Speaker:much can become a bit stale. And then people get bored,
Speaker:and like you say, it feels forced from one person
Speaker:all the time delivering the same message over and over again. You
Speaker:The reason why I ask this is because we do speak to, especially some
Speaker:of the bigger accounts, And they will literally not do
Speaker:anything unless it's a six-month contract. They weren't even like,
Speaker:I don't do one-offs. And that becomes very,
Speaker:very challenging for the brand because they're
Speaker:like, but we see the stuff that you do, but we can't
Speaker:envisage what our product's going to look like in your content. We
Speaker:need to just have a little preview, a little teaser. We'll pay for it,
Speaker:but I don't want to pay for 12 months or six months. and jump
Speaker:into a contract for something that we haven't seen yet. Never,
Speaker:never expect people to do this kind of thing for free. This is typically more
Speaker:for the bigger, bigger accounts. I
Speaker:want to see, I quite like the idea of doing like three pieces
Speaker:Sometimes it's not enough to see an actual engagement because
Speaker:people are like oh he's using a new product. If you see it a couple of times they'll
Speaker:Yeah and also I think it's a
Speaker:bit like so like us as a social media agency like if we do one
Speaker:month's worth of content for you it can blow your mind. You know what I mean? It
Speaker:takes six months to build up from, especially if
Speaker:it's already not been a great account, it's been pretty stale or something like
Speaker:that. And we're creating content, doing the
Speaker:marketing. One month, you're not going to see a huge amount. You will
Speaker:And I think that's what a lot of people, like there are some accounts out
Speaker:there that have just bugged the algorithm and gone crazy.
Speaker:But they also started at a time when the algorithm was like
Speaker:two years ago, a year ago, a year and a half ago. Algorithm was a little bit
Speaker:easier to understand. So if you jump on that, that's gone. I think
Speaker:a lot of people think that or expect it to be an overnight
Speaker:success. Like it takes time to build it. Again,
Speaker:if you haven't set like the fundamentals of the account upright or that
Speaker:the profile is a bit lacking or not, you
Speaker:don't want to engage with it. It's going to take even longer. Like you
Speaker:said, with the audio and the quality of what you're putting out there, there's all these factors
Speaker:to make the account either go, yeah, great. Or a little
Speaker:I think, so I think, I think what I'm taking from that is I think I
Speaker:would like to see. brands and
Speaker:influences engaging in this kind of initial. three pieces
Speaker:of content. I think that's a good, a good sweet spot. Ideally, and
Speaker:this is probably a bit controversial, perhaps a discounted rate.
Speaker:Yeah. So as opposed to like what we do, which is if you want to
Speaker:do project work with us, it's more expensive. I don't
Speaker:know why I'm saying this, but from a brand's perspective, they're kind of going, can
Speaker:we just get a little intro? Yeah. Just a little something. Like an intro deal. Yeah.
Speaker:something like that. I don't know whether I'm
Speaker:telling people to do this or not, I'm probably not. But I
Speaker:think from the brand's perspective, they almost want this little kind
Speaker:of like, let's just test it. Yeah, I don't mean to do it for free, but let me just test it
Speaker:out. And perhaps like a little introductory offer or something that's
Speaker:mutually beneficial would work well with with a view of The
Speaker:only reason why we're doing this is because we're testing a long term
Speaker:agreement. Yeah, that's the only time I would do something and it would kind of
Speaker:I think if it comes with that message and the guys that are doing the content aren't
Speaker:Yeah. And I think that's where like if you are the brand approach in
Speaker:them and you do want that trial period, like, OK, we'll pay
Speaker:you this for three months. We'll then talk. Yes. If we find it to be
Speaker:a success for both. If not, we'll say to you, OK, look, let's do another three months.
Speaker:Because if there's a different way of content that they like, they like the way that they've done
Speaker:it naturally, normally, and they slightly change how they do it, because
Speaker:there's a payment involved, they're like, yeah, but that's what we want.
Speaker:Yes, you've changed. Let's try it that way for a little bit
Speaker:longer. And then let's talk, let's up the rate a little bit. So you don't think
Speaker:Yeah, I think I figured it out though. Right. So I was in
Speaker:my head, I'm thinking, Well, if you're only doing three months worth of
Speaker:content as a one-off, you should be charging more. But if you're doing three months of content with the
Speaker:idea of going for a longer term contract extension, longer term
Speaker:contract, you should be charging less. This is what I'm, this is what I'm potentially telling
Speaker:people. I'm like, that doesn't make any sense at all. Uh, and
Speaker:it's going to be really, really difficult to sort of, cause brands will take advantage of
Speaker:But it could be like, okay, let's charge less, but I want more product, but
Speaker:you've got to send the product. Cause some people like to start with might be using the
Speaker:brand anyway, but they've paid for it. Send
Speaker:I'm always expecting the brand to be sending the product, but listen to this. This
Speaker:might be genius. Groundbreaking. What you do is if it's a
Speaker:short-term thing, you charge more. You charge more than your retained rates.
Speaker:So it's a premium rate because you're doing it once, it's a one-off.
Speaker:That might piss off another brand and therefore you need to be able to be
Speaker:compensated for that. if you're wanting to do an introductory offer
Speaker:for a more long-term agreement, with it in writing, to
Speaker:extend, you
Speaker:set up the 12-month agreement, the six-month agreement, that gets signed as
Speaker:a contract with a three-month probationary period at
Speaker:a reduced rate. So that's how you do it. So what you do is you're already
Speaker:ready to go, But if the brand or you
Speaker:feel like it's not working after those first three months, you've got
Speaker:You've got your probation period. And like you say, you've got
Speaker:that time to feel out if it's right for you, if it's right for your business model, your
Speaker:brand, and again, right for them. Because like you say, you might do a bit
Speaker:of content that's a bit controversial and they think, oh, red flag. Yeah.
Speaker:They can then have a conversation and say, look, we can see where you
Speaker:over the line let's try and bring it back in and then again
Speaker:you're still within that period like if you do it's like the three strikes and
Speaker:you're out yeah but after those three months if everybody's happy it goes
Speaker:back up to the normal retained rate yeah and the agreement is already
Speaker:in place you haven't got to worry about it it just happens yeah it just continues genius
Speaker:right let's go i mean that's i mean i'm sure people are already doing this i don't think
Speaker:i'm the first person i don't think they are excuse me
Speaker:um Typically, this last question before
Speaker:we kind of finish off on this episode.
Speaker:Typically, how do you see what's the work? No, here's
Speaker:a better way of asking this. What's the best practice for
Speaker:pricing as a content creator, as an influencer? What are
Speaker:It's so different from person to person, depending on
Speaker:following. Because there's some out there with really big
Speaker:following that you think, oh, maybe you should be charging more. Or
Speaker:there's some out there that you think, whoa, That's what you're charging? And
Speaker:people are paying that? There's not like a set rate per follower? No,
Speaker:there's no set rate. But I think if you go for, like, take
Speaker:an average of following, average of following, where it sits, so you could
Speaker:have like, between this and this, it's average of this. And
Speaker:it'd be okay. You've got a low end and a top end. Where
Speaker:do you set? But it can also be okay, not just the following. What's your engagement
Speaker:because it could be like, oh yeah, I've got a thousand followers, but only 9,000 interact. You
Speaker:could have 10K and 9,000 of that 10 interact. You're
Speaker:going to be more valuable. So you could then set your rate maybe the
Speaker:same as someone at 100K. But it's more
Speaker:down to the person as well, because it could be, okay, you work either
Speaker:on hourly rate or day rate with what you're doing task-wise. What
Speaker:do you charge? Okay. And how long are you now spending
Speaker:extra on the filming, on the content, and
Speaker:on the editing. So what's that time worth to you? Yes. Would
Speaker:Exactly. And family time is something you can't get back. Kids,
Speaker:if they're young, they're only young for a short period of time and they only want to play play
Speaker:games or whatever for a short period of time. It should
Speaker:come at a premium. And it's one of those, I think, brands overlook the
Speaker:fact that it's like, oh yeah, but that's a lot of money. You're asking for them to do a
Speaker:20 hour day now to get the content filmed, edited and
Speaker:Yeah. Are you mad? And also you're paying, you're sort of back
Speaker:paying for, as a brand, for the audience
Speaker:Yeah. And that engagement that they've built and the trust that they've built with that audience
Speaker:for free. Like you wouldn't expect someone with
Speaker:no followers to get paid. because there's
Speaker:No. And I think that will be a really key thing is set
Speaker:your prices where you're happy because it could be, you might have a hundred
Speaker:K, but you're happy with like the same sort of price as someone who's like aiming to
Speaker:like be breaking stupid money at you. Fine. But
Speaker:as long as you're happy with that is what they've got to be comfortable with and
Speaker:It's got to be a comfortable, but also what you think, okay, the
Speaker:brand will accept. Because you don't want to go, like you say, you don't want to go too high
Speaker:that they're like, don't even consider it. Whereas if you go high
Speaker:enough that they go, okay, would you be willing to come to here? Okay, yeah. And
Speaker:they're still happy in that little green zone, as it were. I
Speaker:think it would just be that like, really, because I do a lot of
Speaker:the pricing for people on their media packs, because I have no idea
Speaker:where to start. I'm like, well, let me put an average in of where your follower
Speaker:are you happy with this? They're like, oh, I'd rather a little bit more here, or
Speaker:I'm happy to come down to this. It's okay. We'll set this as the high level. If you're
Speaker:happy to come down to that, then we know what we send. And
Speaker:I think that's as simple as it sounds stupid, but it is simple. Yeah. Are
Speaker:Absolutely. And also does that fit in with the goals that we talked about
Speaker:Yeah. What do you want out of it? If you wanted an extra, what would you say, 30 grand
Speaker:or 10 grand per brand. Therefore, I want to work with this
Speaker:particular brand for a year at a
Speaker:Yeah. Have I got time to do it? It's not
Speaker:And it could be you're doing three reels or post
Speaker:a month and maybe there might be an event in the middle of it, like a big event. And
Speaker:a lot of that could come for paying for your attendance at
Speaker:an event. It doesn't have to be content, but you'll naturally create the content at
Speaker:And 8.50 again, you might have bigger goals than 30 grand a
Speaker:year extra, 8.50 for a brand per month is fuck all.
Speaker:in the big grand scheme of what they're bringing in is nothing. And I
Speaker:think when brands go, oh yeah, but our budget is so small. I'm like, yeah,
Speaker:but what you're bringing in is not. And I think that's where they just, they
Speaker:want to try and keep it more in their product. I'm like, yeah, but you could get more in your product by
Speaker:Yeah. Especially if you're an e-commerce brand, if you're you know,
Speaker:if you're going direct to the consumer, you are literally like, okay, you
Speaker:You haven't got any overheads for a warehouse and office
Speaker:space. Like everyone works from home or it's a self-run business or
Speaker:I think, I'm sure there's a reason why construction brands
Speaker:typically work through a distributor model, even if they've got like a
Speaker:big head office. But a lot of the, almost all the brands that
Speaker:we work with, they don't sell direct to the consumer. They have to go through
Speaker:a Wix's or whatever. So
Speaker:the problem with that is then whenever you're using influencers, you're literally doing it
Speaker:for brand awareness because the influencer can't then manipulate
Speaker:a sale. Because all they're doing is saying, hey, I'm using this product,
Speaker:you should go to your local such and
Speaker:such. So we can't get the data from that. Whereas when we
Speaker:have worked with direct to consumer brands, the content's very
Speaker:different because it's super about the sales. It's just about generating that
Speaker:And the engagement will be so different and so much easier
Speaker:to monitor that return on investment that brands
Speaker:They'll put 20 grand on an ad per day. Oh, God, yeah. Yeah, it's mad.
Speaker:And so they're using crazy influencers, they're doing that kind of thing. The distributor model
Speaker:is a little bit different. They're a little bit more careful about their money. But
Speaker:technically, they should be doing the same thing. Why wouldn't you? Yeah, you're
Speaker:trying to achieve the same thing. But the marketing guys, they can't, they
Speaker:can't because they can't get the data from that to justify 20 grand
Speaker:a day. Yeah, on ads. It's a it's
Speaker:It's starting to see a lot more distributors or
Speaker:like the tool stations, those actually now using influencers to
Speaker:drive sales to them because they'll then get more from the
Speaker:brands. So it could be, the influencer could be on a win because
Speaker:they might already work with a brand that sold through that distributor. It's a
Speaker:And that could be your 30 grand is you've got two brands and one
Speaker:of them is also a stockist, but they're two comp, like
Speaker:complimenting products. and a distributor, you're
Speaker:an absolute massive win because you're getting three ticked off in
Speaker:I don't really look into the distributors. We have got
Speaker:retailers as clients, but they're very specific
Speaker:um, uh, builders, merchants and stuff like that, as opposed to like a Wix
Speaker:or something. Um, but yeah, that'd be, that'd be
Speaker:amazing. Cause you can get the influences on board with that. Um, and
Speaker:also from a content creation perspective, we're working with
Speaker:stuff that we wouldn't typically work with because we're basically just like, Oh, we're working with Wix.
Speaker:Okay, cool. What do you want to do? Lormo is great. Never shot Lormo as content before.
Speaker:Um, or whatever, you know, like we don't do a lot of stuff with power tools, even
Speaker:though I'd love to. Um, who are you speaking to that does power tools?
Speaker:Oh, We were working with Altrad Bell the other
Speaker:day, weren't we? They do, they're just not power tools technically, they do have the big saws. The
Speaker:That looked, I had so many messages saying why wasn't I there? I'm like, I
Speaker:It was cool. It's one for the calendar. I enjoyed it. I think next time I will not
Speaker:be shooting it. Just attending. Just attending, yeah. I
Speaker:think I would have liked to enjoyed it a little bit more. Was it stressful? Ah,
Speaker:it was logistically a nightmare. Yeah. Cause what we did was we
Speaker:got the go ahead for, um, two brands, which are
Speaker:kind of in the same group. So, um, uh, we,
Speaker:we, they were like, we're going to this show. Um, we want to get content of
Speaker:us, of us that we've like got this big VIP section. We've like
Speaker:basically sponsored the whole thing. It's like, cool. Okay. We already
Speaker:work with these guys. They're on retainer anyway. Um, so, and that's,
Speaker:I'm like, there's, there's that little bit of insight in me. That's
Speaker:just like, because they don't retain it, it feels like we're doing it
Speaker:Like you say you go to and you want a little bit more because you've got all
Speaker:Yeah, we get reimbursed for all that kind of stuff. But as yeah, essentially,
Speaker:I'm just like, I've not gained anything from going to the show. Technically, I have
Speaker:I shouldn't think about like this, because I need I needed to shoot content with these guys. Because
Speaker:if we go up two or three months without shooting content, then obviously they got like where the
Speaker:hell's the value. Yeah, So really cool that they hired us
Speaker:to do that, because we wanted to go anyway. So now I'm on the blower to literally
Speaker:everybody that's attending that I know. I'm
Speaker:like, do you want to get content? We're already going, we're already going to be there. I can bring
Speaker:more people. Yeah, so you can get more out of it.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah. Basically, my goal was I wanted a new camera out of
Speaker:the show. Oh, easy. So I
Speaker:But, um, yeah, so, so we might, we
Speaker:managed to pick up two more brands, two
Speaker:Yes. Um, it just got really confused because technically it's four brands
Speaker:that we were working with, but what were two of them were in the same group. Um,
Speaker:so it was logistics logistics of like, right, there's only
Speaker:three of us, one of the brands needed two videographers for
Speaker:the whole time. So that meant that one there was
Speaker:another person that was kind of floating around doing bits and bobs. So we'd
Speaker:like an hour with one company, And then we did four hours
Speaker:with another and three hours with another. And we were kind
Speaker:of swapping out and changing and stuff like that. It was it was mad, wasn't it?
Speaker:But cool, cool show. Yeah. I wish my
Speaker:regret is I wish I'd have got I wish I had another videographer. at
Speaker:the time to go and shoot the stuff that was actually
Speaker:going on in the competition. We didn't
Speaker:get loads of content of that because we were so focused on we did get that some of
Speaker:that stuff but I'd really like for somebody to be essentially just like content
Speaker:creator for the comp as opposed to our brands. Anyway,
Speaker:cool we'll see you at the next one. And hopefully
Speaker:I'll have more videographers at that point that I can just go and chill.
Speaker:Yeah. Enjoy that a little bit more. Basically I was supposed to, Aisha,
Speaker:our marketing manager said you need to go and speak to these people and these people and these people because I've already been
Speaker:speaking to them and they're looking, they know that you're
Speaker:going and they've said come and say hello and I didn't because we were just
Speaker:so busy. So I feel bad about that. We're
Speaker:literally, we're right at the end of the episode now. We've
Speaker:It's been an exciting episode. I've loved it. The energy has been incredible.
Speaker:I kind
Speaker:of got two questions like next five years, but just
Speaker:just literally just like, super short to
Speaker:the point. Where's the industry going in terms of marketing?
Speaker:What's going to what's going to happen? Do you think like what you're going to see more of or less of or whatever?
Speaker:I think it's a tricky one, because it changes week on week. I
Speaker:think to look five years ahead, I think it will just be a lot more of
Speaker:the brand deals. And I think a lot of people will stop doing work
Speaker:for work. I think a lot of it will start to become more working
Speaker:to create content. I think that's how it's
Speaker:going to go, which worries me because then you're going to lose the skills within industry.
Speaker:I think that's a concern for a lot of people as well because you've got like
Speaker:the younger gen coming through like the apprenticeships, like they've done that and
Speaker:they're the ones that are sort of snapping up the deals because they're bringing a fresh energy to
Speaker:it. And like the older gen or the ones that have been sort of like the OGs from
Speaker:the start doing it, are getting a little bit miffed. Yeah, because they
Speaker:feel that they're being done. But it's like, okay, you've missed a trick. Yeah,
Speaker:got to stay on top of things to do it. So I think it'll be trying
Speaker:And yeah, I think it'll be like, kind of, balance
Speaker:between that, but also authenticity. Because
Speaker:if you're not really, if you haven't got the skills, then really you're not authentic. Because
Speaker:like some of the people like Mark Tiffers that
Speaker:we had on the show the other day, I kind of was aware
Speaker:of his YouTube content, but I actually started properly watching it more
Speaker:so around the time that he came on the podcast. And
Speaker:it was kind of akin to the stuff that I watch about camera equipment
Speaker:and production, because I was like, oh, I could kind of
Speaker:understand most of the stuff that he was talking about up to a certain point
Speaker:when it came to plumbing. But I'm like, oh, like he's
Speaker:actually showing tips and tricks for plumbers that I'm sure plumbers
Speaker:find really interesting, because it's like hacks and not like goofy
Speaker:hacks like you see on TikTok, but genuine just like, I came across this problem and
Speaker:this is how I fixed it. And I didn't know that I could fix
Speaker:it in this way, but this is actually saving me loads of time," or whatever it was. That's the
Speaker:Angela Mayhew Well, the educational side. And I think a lot of people, or a lot
Speaker:of apprentices I know as well, have used social media
Speaker:and stories and following these types of guys, like Tiffers and the guys, to
Speaker:learn. Because there might be some old stuff in a classroom, but
Speaker:they can actually do it. Like when I was doing the social media, after
Speaker:I've done like a load of work, I'll sit and I might do a bit of a scroll and watch the stories. There
Speaker:was one, one of the plumbers a couple of years ago, he was fitting one of the big old fancy
Speaker:toilets that's got all the buttons and it washes your bum and all sorts. And
Speaker:he literally did it step by step, and showed the instruction page,
Speaker:and showed how he did it, and why he might have swapped out one
Speaker:of the bits that came with the kit for something that would have been better and
Speaker:stronger. Like, for example, switching out a wall plug for
Speaker:something that's stronger and better. The little bits there, and he's like, why
Speaker:he's done it. I messaged him afterwards, after the day of watching
Speaker:it each bit, and I was like, I think I could genuinely fit one of these on myself. I
Speaker:feel confident enough that if I could just watch your story back again
Speaker:as like a highlight reel, I could fit my own fancy toilet. And
Speaker:I think that's the educational side of it. I think that's where it's more going to go as
Speaker:I think that kind of stuff is important for
Speaker:the genuine trader, because they're just like, that's really cool. And you're influenced
Speaker:And you find that it could be as daft as it sounds. You could
Speaker:have this really polished reel that you've taken hours to film, and
Speaker:it could get like certain views. You do something stupid, like this is
Speaker:how I attach a wall plug, or this is how I put a cupboard door on. and
Speaker:it gets more engagement, more views than something that's taken you hours
Speaker:because it's simple. And it's more engaging because people are like, oh, okay,
Speaker:so I can adjust the screw. Okay, right. Okay. I can fix it with this or
Speaker:use that material here. And they wouldn't have thought to do it. So it's
Speaker:that little light bulb moment that's actually had more of a positive vibe. So
Speaker:I think also, so A
Speaker:lot of the content that I see, I consume in
Speaker:the construction industry is very samey. There's very
Speaker:few people, sorry, there's fewer
Speaker:people being genuinely creative
Speaker:Yeah. You can tell I had a couple of
Speaker:drinks last night because all the big words have gone. All the vocabulary's gone.
Speaker:Um, but, uh, yeah, there's, there's not, there's the
Speaker:guys that differentiate themselves by doing something completely unique and different. There's
Speaker:less of those. And I think what we're going to see. As
Speaker:there's more influences coming in or jumping on the same trends as
Speaker:So they're going to have to step up their game. They have to be more interesting and
Speaker:different. And I'm excited to see that because at the moment I'm kind
Speaker:of just seeing the same stuff. A lot of the time it's just like, oh, here's a
Speaker:reel. It's the same reel that I saw this other guy doing. It's basically the same
Speaker:It's like the transitions. Everyone's using the same. It's like
Speaker:when some of the transitions I'm seeing as well, it's almost like when you first learn to
Speaker:use PowerPoint. There's too many. And you're like, okay, I've
Speaker:just seen something spin around and it's too much. Stop. They just use
Speaker:the good ones, the ones that flow. Some people are using too many and
Speaker:No. Calm down. But then I think on the surface it
Speaker:probably works. And this is the problem. It's the annoying thing. Yeah, it
Speaker:probably works really well. But longevity wise, it's
Speaker:like everybody's reading from the same book. And therefore, they're
Speaker:all going to be kind of muddied together. And the guys and girls
Speaker:that are going to be separating themselves are going to be the ones who are either really controversial or
Speaker:I was going to say I think that's where it's going to go and that's where people are going to get more views is
Speaker:that tongue and cheek on the edge. That's
Speaker:what it's going to, people are going to have to start doing to
Speaker:I think picking something that's, like on that vein of
Speaker:thought, picking something that you can,
Speaker:that's different but that you can do consistently over a long period of
Speaker:time is challenging. You know what I mean? It's like the guy we
Speaker:were talking about earlier, He's the guy that does the really, he did
Speaker:Beer Plumber. Yeah. So love that content. Really,
Speaker:really cool. Like it's like, if you haven't seen Beer Plumber, go check it
Speaker:out, but it's like, um, really dry, um,
Speaker:like kind of matter of fact voiceover. Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah. And it's, and it's kind of, I don't know how to describe it. It's kind of
Speaker:like comically, um, uh, what's
Speaker:the, what, what would you class that kind of dialogue as?
Speaker:It's, it's, it's kind of like arsey basically. It's
Speaker:like comically arsey and, and like dry, Like
Speaker:he's had enough. Yeah, exactly. He's just done with it.
Speaker:And it's really, really funny. And it's like, I look at
Speaker:that and I think, that's hilarious. Could you do that for
Speaker:every single video? Yeah, how long could you keep doing this for? So
Speaker:is there a theme around that that you can kind of build this
Speaker:persona out of that stands the test
Speaker:And I think that's what people are doing, is building a social media persona. It's
Speaker:not who they are, but it's who they've got to be. to
Speaker:like make it work. But I like the ones I sort of
Speaker:tend to see myself or find a lot of people and myself
Speaker:included interacting with more and more of like the, like you said, the tips and
Speaker:the tricks, but more like relatable. Like
Speaker:there was a voiceover on someone's story the other day. It's like, Oh, when you pick up a drill, what's
Speaker:the first thing you do? You pull the trigger. Yeah. It's just natural. You
Speaker:can't not just pick it up and just hold it. You have to go and you're
Speaker:Well the beautiful thing about that kind of the content that's like the tips and tricks and
Speaker:and this almost educational day in the life stuff is
Speaker:it's authentic and it's and it's it's
Speaker:got longevity because that's just you doing stuff yeah you know
Speaker:it's not a gimmick it's not an act. It's
Speaker:genuine and more relatable. Yeah that's the way that I
Speaker:would go. So you're relying on your personality more than transitions and gimmicks
Speaker:But sharing your knowledge. Yeah. And I think a lot of that's missed
Speaker:because like you say a lot of people are like all of like the more niche
Speaker:trades are starting to sort of you see them dying out like the skill
Speaker:set starting to die out because it's not being shown,
Speaker:Like the stone dresser, Yorkshire stone dresser. James, legend, shout
Speaker:out James. And you just sort of think like, like where's the
Speaker:like as a as a someone who's not in that industry I'm like who the where's the
Speaker:market for you as an influencer and then you watch
Speaker:I love doing the content days with James we have so much fun and we
Speaker:get so much done but like you say I get to then witness it first hand and
Speaker:I see it and like the same I spent a day with um Chris Tominey, Tominey
Speaker:Stone, his mate that does the carving. Mad. Has
Speaker:got skills. Yeah. Like helped me and sort of taught me how to do my little logo
Speaker:in the stone. And it was just like, it's like stepping
Speaker:I loved it. And it's like the days where I, instead of having to be sat behind on a
Speaker:laptop, I get to get hands on the tools, actually learn a new skill and
Speaker:be a part of it and be like, wow. Everyone's like, oh yeah, everyone
Speaker:thinks it looks easy. Trust me, I've never thought it looks easy. It is
Speaker:It is fun, but it's challenging. I
Speaker:don't understand any of the technology or the terms that are in
Speaker:that industry, but he'll be using what I assume is like a chisel and
Speaker:a hammer. and he'll be like taking off essentially like a
Speaker:right angle from this like block and it's in a per... and
Speaker:all he's doing is literally he's like boom boom boom and it's like perfect. I
Speaker:like knock it and then move it along he's just like bang bang and
Speaker:If you haven't seen his page check it out the Yorkshire Stone Dresser honestly
Speaker:like on one of the days I gave it a go that hammer
Speaker:is heavy yeah if you're swinging that all day man's
Speaker:like Popeye one arm's bigger than the other and the skill with
Speaker:it like you sort of you'd be so scared to move like the the chisel or
Speaker:the knicker yeah and you'd hold it i was holding it still and he's doing
Speaker:you just see like he's tinking it away and at the angle and you're like how do you
Speaker:know where the hell your hand's gonna be without smashing it just yeah
Speaker:it's a long lift skill that i think we could do like a corporate day with
Speaker:the yorkshire stone dress i bet that'd be really expensive but if we could get the whole of
Speaker:the dissident team out to have a play I think get that, get
Speaker:James and Chris together. You could, you can dress the stone and
Speaker:then you could chisel it and then you could like, you could probably carve dissident into
Speaker:Do it. Big up the Yorkshire lads. I'm going to contact them.
Speaker:That would be amazing if we did like, because I'm always like, oh,
Speaker:Let's hook it up. Let's make it happen. We'll shoot content, but also
Speaker:Team bonding. Each person gets to do a
Speaker:could do yeah make it colorful very that would be dissident to be very dissonant dissent
Speaker:is like get it carved get it get it dressed carve it take it
Speaker:back into the studio and paintball the hell out of it that would
Speaker:be sick slow-mo the hell out of that any
Speaker:is there anything that we've not talked about that i
Speaker:you feel like i should have asked you if we if we're not covered any topics i
Speaker:Yeah, come and get Limitless. Amazing.
Speaker:Thank you so much, Emma. Thank you for having me. Limitless EGS.
Speaker:Through social media on the website. Number and email are
Speaker:on there. So I'm pretty active on everything. All of them.
Speaker:So Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, WhatsApp,
Speaker:I'm excited. I'm excited for, um, uh, to see
Speaker:Construction sport and mental health in the trade. Big important topic.
Speaker:Yeah. No, I'm excited for that. Um, and I'm excited for this to come out. I
Speaker:think this has been a really powerful episode of, uh, and I think it's going
Speaker:to be something that a lot of content creators and brands
Speaker:are going to be educated by this. I think there's a lot of stuff that hasn't
Speaker:I think it's fun being again like we said with the influence of being that person that's
Speaker:in the middle of it all because you can help the brands. Yes. You
Speaker:Hopefully we get paid in the meantime. Hit up Emma if you're either
